Etwas Lesestoff vom heutigen Townhall im OSGrid:
[13:59:29] Rafaella Docherty is Online
[13:59:54] Jalen Optera is Online
[14:00:23] Jalen Optera is Offline
[14:00:41] Catie Chiung is Offline
[14:01:07] stiofain nbmcmedia is Offline
[14:02:20] stiofain nbmcmedia is Online
[14:02:55] Marc User is Online
[14:03:28] Rebekka Revnik is Online
[14:04:36] Boxster Karu is Offline
[14:05:23] Oddball Otoole is Offline
[14:06:08] Vivienne Clary is Offline
[14:06:40] Vivienne Clary is Online
[14:06:58] Oddball Otoole is Online
[14:07:08] alizee perido is Offline
[14:11:26] Catie Chiung is Online
[14:11:56] Bruch a is Online
[14:16:19] Catie Chiung gave you Snapshot : Lani region OSGrid - Sc, Lani (92, 172, 215.
[14:16:30] Mario Lane is Online
[14:18:37] Rafaella Docherty is Offline
[14:20:12] Hiro Protagonist: lol
[14:20:24] Allen Kerensky: i hope whoever took that pic got my good side
[14:20:27] Hiro Protagonist: Ok
[14:20:29] Hiro Protagonist: shall we?
[14:20:30] Allen Kerensky fluffs hair
[14:20:34] dan banner: ok
[14:20:43] Talla Slade: this place is more like a speakeasy
[14:20:52] Hiro Protagonist: Dan, you got anything on the agenda for tonight in particular?
[14:21:11] Hiro Protagonist: Talla Thanks, I designed it to be a cyberpunk speakeasy
[14:21:21] dan banner: nothing at the moment
[14:21:26] Talla Slade: oh nice, Hiro
[14:23:17] Kahn Khalim: .
[14:23:23] Jeeper Shim: no chatter.. no a good sign
[14:23:23] Oddball Otoole: we crashed? or is this a sudden silence?
[14:23:30] Jalen Optera: hiro is typing
[14:23:35] Oddball Otoole: ah!
[14:23:38] Hiro Protagonist: someone is in their inventory running a search
[14:23:41] Talla Slade: uhoh
[14:23:54] Arielle Popstar holds her breath
[14:23:55] dan banner: oh i thought hiro had a lot to say lol
[14:24:00] Adelle Fitzgerald: thats probably just someone logging in, Hiro
[14:24:02] Hiro Protagonist: Ok since this seems a lot less like a potential lynching tonight, I'm going right straight to the people (thats y'all) and open up the floor. I hjave a few news items of some merit when y'all hit all the highpoints.
[14:24:04] Jalen Optera: That would be fiddling, NO FIDDLING
[14:24:11] Allen Kerensky grips the arm chairs waiting for the quake to hit.
[14:24:11] Talla Slade: my words got eaten. I will stick to chocolates
[14:24:12] Adelle Fitzgerald: seems some viewers flood the inventory gates when logging in
[14:24:22] Hiro Protagonist: that line will probably eventually repeat itself, just ignore it if it does.
[14:24:27] Hiro Protagonist: Ahh
[14:24:48] Hiro Protagonist: Ok, who's got a question? Dont be shy y'all
[14:25:00] Hiro Protagonist: just be nice to each other while asking
[14:25:02] Allen Kerensky: what happened to the choices of avatars in Lbsa?
[14:25:10] Oddball Otoole: ok, why are lots of folks running to metropolis?
[14:25:15] Allen Kerensky: the row disappeared - will it be back?
[14:25:21] Allen Kerensky: good question too Odd
[14:25:22] Hiro Protagonist: There was about 50 really poorly done avatars there
[14:25:48] Fearghus McMahon: heyyyy i'm wearing one of them
[14:25:49] Arielle Popstar: they looked like criminals
[14:25:56] Adelle Fitzgerald: what is metropolis?
[14:25:56] Hiro Protagonist: I got a new set from Claudia Sanz that will be taking their place, and eventually other very high quality efforts will join those
[14:25:58] Arielle Popstar: oops
[14:26:10] Allen Kerensky: yeah some of the greeters were asking what happened to them is all
[14:26:11] Talla Slade: So, is OSgrid closing down is all I want to really really know?
[14:26:14] Hiro Protagonist: but that is getting into one of my news pieces, and I'll clarify at that time
[14:26:23] Hiro Protagonist: Talla: Hells no.
[14:26:27] Dorothea Lundquist: I would like to know... how HIro see the future of OS
[14:26:33] Hiro Protagonist: OSgrid?
[14:26:52] Hiro Protagonist: well, I see it has a future. How it all plays out is a story we will all write a chapter of.
[14:27:04] Jamie Wright: Maybe you should just launch into the news pieces?
[14:27:13] Hiro Protagonist: Patience Jamie
[14:27:22] Allen Kerensky: Roadmap suggestions - add the avatar choice as part of signup page to stop the first time rez-as-cloud for new folks
[14:27:23] Jamie Wright: Alright
[14:27:43] Arielle Popstar: well probably a few wondering about the chat log making the metaverse circuit
[14:27:47] Hiro Protagonist: Allen, that is certainly technically possible, but it would be a very backburner thing for the time being
[14:27:47] Oddball Otoole: No, my question was: why do I see all of a sudden lots of oldbie osg folks popping up on metropolis grid.
[14:27:49] LyAvain Swansong is Online
[14:27:55] Allen Kerensky: Roadmap suggestion: add the landmarks in the boxes to the default OSG inventory so greeters can refer people directly to them in inventory
[14:27:58] Akira Sonoda: It came to my ears that the "Freedom of Avatar Appearance" is in danger ... any statement about that issue ???
[14:28:16] Hiro Protagonist: Ok now we're getting to the meat of the matter
[14:28:23] Dorothea Lundquist: yes
[14:28:28] Hiro Protagonist: as you will all recall, there is some signage in LBSA Plaza
[14:28:37] Dorothea Lundquist: think that was my second question
)
[14:28:49] Hiro Protagonist: it's the sign with the yellow text, and has Dan's, Neb's and Key's portraits on it
[14:28:55] stiofain nbmcmedia: there is a lot of bitching on blogs makes osg look bad
[14:28:59] Hiro Protagonist: sorry I havent had a chance to get my mugshot up yet
[14:29:08] Hiro Protagonist: but in the yellow text are some rules.
[14:29:19] Hiro Protagonist: All that is happeing is that those rules are going to be enforced.
[14:29:25] Catie Chiung is Offline
[14:29:29] Talla Slade: do you plan to have some kind of elected representatives from the community on the board?
[14:29:33] Catie Chiung is Online
[14:29:41] Oddball Otoole: oh, we get to get age-verified?
[14:29:46] Akira Sonoda: Is this just related to LBSA ???
[14:29:47] Adelle Fitzgerald: what are those rules, Hiro?
[14:29:49] Hiro Protagonist: We really havent even begun to enforce them; the offenders in question left because they knew it was going to happen, however
[14:29:56] Hiro Protagonist: no there will be no attempt to age verify
[14:30:14] Allen Kerensky: and maybe that's part of the metropolis migration pattern
[14:30:17] Oddball Otoole: how are you going to enforce the rules then?
[14:30:22] Hiro Protagonist: 'delle, I would even want to begin to try and quote them ,as I would surely get it wrong.
[14:30:26] Hiro Protagonist: However I will say this
[14:31:33] Catie Chiung is Offline
[14:31:34] Rebekka Revnik is Offline
[14:32:13] Bernhard Ansar is Offline
[14:32:25] Catie Chiung is Online
[14:35:13] Void Pipe is Offline
[14:35:14] Oddball Otoole: (now hiro has a lot to type!
)
[14:35:15] Hiro Protagonist: if your idea of 'avatar expression' is to dress as a child, e.g., under 18 in appearance (I know that is broad as hell) then it is in violation of the rules published there
[14:35:15] Oddball Otoole: chatlag??
[14:35:16] Hiro Protagonist: .
[14:35:16] dan banner: .
[14:35:16] Arielle Popstar: something to the effect of things relating to child in a sexual nature
[14:35:17] Adelle Fitzgerald: ..
[14:35:25] Key Gruin: test
[14:35:28] Arielle Popstar: test
[14:35:30] Joe Radik: I lost chat
[14:35:32] George Equus: Is chat running OLK? Mine is all quiet
[14:35:35] CQ DX: .
[14:35:37] Hiro Protagonist: .
[14:35:39] L Arado: hmmm... dramatic pause?
[14:35:41] Alexandra Runningbear: i am crashed?
[14:35:42] Allen Kerensky: ping bade
[14:35:46] Hiro Protagonist: ok the region came back good
[14:35:51] Dorothea Lundquist: think we are back
)
[14:35:51] Key Gruin: lol we're back
[14:35:52] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe
[14:35:53] Allen Kerensky: network thread stall maybe
[14:35:53] Talla Slade: so role playing is out?
[14:36:04] Arielle Popstar: its the broadness i have issue with
[14:36:09] Arielle Popstar: define it
[14:36:12] Key Gruin: hope I'm not on top of anyone
[14:36:16] Alexandra Runningbear: hiro, it may be not a good idea to write rules, put it in a prim and told the other eat od die?
[14:36:35] Hiro Protagonist: Listen. I'll not be forced into a position where I have to clear this situation up 'instanter'
[14:36:39] Adelle Fitzgerald: gotcha Hiro
[14:36:41] Dorothea Lundquist: you mean take it of leave it policy Alexandra?
[14:36:42] Alexandra Runningbear: that nothing about the rules
[14:36:49] Alexandra Runningbear: but the way to do it
[14:36:57] Arielle Popstar: that leaves you to boot if you having a bad day
[14:37:02] Hiro Protagonist: we're trying to work these things out in a way that is 'friendly' to the broadest number of people.
[14:37:30] Hiro Protagonist: One of the things that I'll talk about in my 'news' pieces will really help to mitigate this problem.
[14:37:50] Allen Kerensky: maybe region maturity ratings can be rolled into the details
[14:37:58] Talla Slade: but it is just a few ppeople at the top deciding, Hiro. right?
[14:38:05] Hiro Protagonist: but I can tell you if I have forty people banging on my head constantly about this, nothing will really ever get done
[14:38:17] Hiro Protagonist: it's just me talla
[14:38:37] Hiro Protagonist: and I am in a position to do so.
[14:38:38] Arielle Popstar: thats why defining it is helpfull
[14:38:40] Talla Slade: so its a dictatorship?
[14:38:41] Arielle Popstar: now it is ambiguous
[14:38:42] Hiro Protagonist: Let me say it again.
[14:38:51] Hiro Protagonist: we're trying to work these things out in a way that is 'friendly' to the broadest number of people.
[14:38:56] Hiro Protagonist: However
[14:39:05] Allen Kerensky: can we say "let's take a wait and see" without jumping to conclusions
[14:39:07] Dorothea Lundquist: I read some loggs and we know you can pull the plugg out
do not remind us of that all the time
[14:39:08] Hiro Protagonist: it wont be at all friendly to those who break with the rules
[14:39:32] Talla Slade: but one person is making the decision, Hiro. You?
[14:39:35] Hiro Protagonist: that isnt what I'm reminding you of at all Dorthea
[14:39:49] Dorothea Lundquist: oke
[14:40:26] Jamie Wright: OK so the rule stands that you cannnot represent as an avatar under the age of 18, even in a role play sense? And that's what posted in the LBSA? Is it also on the website now for people new wishing to sign up?
[14:40:34] Hiro Protagonist: if your going to quote a bunch of Jerry Springer Show rejects posting in the National Enquirer to me, then have the decency to admit that the entire chatlog was taken completely out of context, and only my words were quoted
[14:40:50] Oddball Otoole: ok, we have some rules, and you are gonna enforce them. That's fine. How are you going to that?
[14:40:52] Hiro Protagonist: the other people in question are serial offenders
[14:40:55] Dorothea Lundquist: I quote what i read, I never listen to rumours
[14:41:02] Hiro Protagonist: left here because why? no one would enforce the rules
[14:41:03] Arielle Popstar: there are places were the entire log was posted
[14:41:09] Raybo Rubble: lets not attack the people who gives us the play ground to play on with out hearing him first people
[14:41:13] Hiro Protagonist: and their friends are the 'oldbies' migrating elsewhere.
[14:41:20] Hiro Protagonist: I am not unhappy to see them gone as well.
[14:41:27] Alexandra Runningbear: hiro
[14:41:32] Alexandra Runningbear: in rl
[14:41:46] Dorothea Lundquist: Sorry, but some need a bit more appreciation for what they did
[14:41:47] Alexandra Runningbear: i have to do alot with ppl everyday
[14:42:00] Alexandra Runningbear: and learned
[14:42:16] JJ Zackerly is Online
[14:42:17] Alexandra Runningbear: rl isnt gor
[14:42:18] Hiro Protagonist: These are the rules here:
http://i.imgur.com/b1qvDub.png
[14:42:25] Alexandra Runningbear: rl inst hell
[14:42:29] Alexandra Runningbear: it isnt heaven
[14:42:32] Akira Sonoda: But who gave you the right to make those rules ??? I'd really like a more democratic process concerning whatever rule is set up in the grid ...
[14:42:42] Alexandra Runningbear: but pll can decide about her life
[14:42:48] Talla Slade: Since OSgrid relies on our donations should we not elect representatives from the community to help work things out?
[14:42:59] Alexandra Runningbear: living in democratic states
[14:43:00] Oddball Otoole: a grid decides what rules it adepts. np with that
[14:43:05] Hiro Protagonist: rl is when you have as much work in a thing as I have in this, and a financial stake in it as well (I personally pay for 1/4 of it) then my words carry a lot of weight
[14:43:08] Akira Sonoda agrees to Talla
[14:43:23] Alexandra Runningbear: yes
[14:43:25] Alexandra Runningbear: a lot
[14:43:28] Alexandra Runningbear: but not all
[14:43:28] Hiro Protagonist: Akira: i didnt make those rules
[14:43:36] Hiro Protagonist: I just happen to agree with them 100%
[14:43:40] Allen Kerensky: why does this remind me of the end of Moon Is A Harsh Mistress - time to add TANSTAAFL onto the OSG flag
[14:43:43] Oddball Otoole: it's to us, the users if we follow those rules or go elsewhere.
[14:43:58] Jamie Wright: I think the sign needs to clearly state that child avatars are not OK, as does the website if that's what's going to be enforced. Otherwise there will be confusion.
[14:44:01] Akira Sonoda: so what elected board of representatives made those rules?
[14:44:04] Hiro Protagonist: that is correct. and honestly, I dont get what makes them so difficult to follow.
[14:44:19] Adelle Fitzgerald: from what I have just read of those rules, they apply to the OSGrid plaza regions only
[14:44:22] Hiro Protagonist: one that no longer exists
[14:44:37] Hiro Protagonist: perhaps they do Adelle, but lets not be tedious
[14:44:58] Fearghus McMahon: the rules talk about the OSGrid Plazas though...what about all the other regions that are connected?
[14:45:02] Adelle Fitzgerald: im not being tedious, im simply quoting what it says on the image you just posted
[14:45:09] Hiro Protagonist: lets move on to the news.
[14:45:15] Allen Kerensky: now we know why Obama uses a prompter and prepared speeches...
[14:45:17] Hiro Protagonist: One item in particular is sure to replace this uproar with another.
[14:45:17] Arielle Popstar: the sign says nothing of chhild avatars but only of age play
[14:45:22] Amy Storm: I think that people have had feedback into the policies but ultimately there has to be decisions made.
[14:45:22] Arielle Popstar: a wide difference
[14:45:28] Hiro Protagonist: this has nothing to do with obama.
[14:45:33] Oddball Otoole: If folks wanna fuck on my of my sims, I won't stop them.
[14:45:47] Hiro Protagonist: the big news, if there is any, is that LBSA will soon cease to be the welcome area.
[14:46:00] Hiro Protagonist: it will be replaced in that role with OSgrid Welcome Station.
[14:46:09] Talla Slade: Child abuse and the depiction of childen in sexual acts is wrong, agreed but so is banning people who role play innocently in child avatars. Do they ban childen from movies?
[14:46:10] Hiro Protagonist: That region has now a teleport router
[14:46:30] Hiro Protagonist: it will send anyone who logs there who is not in the greeters grou, or less than 30 days old, to a random plaza
[14:46:55] Hiro Protagonist: Talla: the risk of permitting those valid use cases is too great
[14:46:57] Hiro Protagonist: sorry
[14:47:03] Hiro Protagonist: my decision, and my right to make it.
[14:47:21] Dorothea Lundquist: are people still allowed to give free regions?
[14:47:32] Hiro Protagonist: I hate to sound like an ass, but if you cant handle that, start your own grid
[14:47:39] Hiro Protagonist: then you'll learn why this is a problem
[14:47:41] Talla Slade: what gives you the rights, Hiro?
[14:47:44] Jamie Wright: My main concern is with the rule being clearly communicated.
[14:47:50] Talla Slade: who elected you?
[14:47:54] Arielle Popstar: and you stand behind the idea that furries are charictures of wannabe chiild avi's?
[14:47:55] Oddball Otoole grabs a new bag of popcorn
[14:47:55] Hiro Protagonist: 6 and half years of admin time donated
[14:48:02] Kahn Khalim: my private sim, my rules
[14:48:02] Alexandra Runningbear: hiro you dont understand the thing
[14:48:07] Hiro Protagonist: not to mention I pay for a 1/4 of the cost of operations
[14:48:10] Jamie Wright: I'll respect it but I brought my RPG here with no knowledge of it.
[14:48:18] Alexandra Runningbear: you decide, basta
[14:48:20] Alexandra Runningbear: not asking anyone
[14:48:20] Hiro Protagonist: and also the full amount for hosting
http://opensimulator.org
[14:48:22] Alexandra Runningbear: thats the problem
[14:48:28] Alexandra Runningbear: not the excatly rules
[14:48:29] Hiro Protagonist: you are really barking hard at the hand that feeds you
[14:48:37] Casias Falta: Hiro how much is 1/4 of the cost come out to be
[14:48:41] Zaki Test2 is Online
[14:48:42] Talla Slade: are the books open for anyone to read?
[14:48:48] Talla Slade: the accounts?
[14:49:15] Hiro Protagonist: not at present no
[14:49:20] Hiro Protagonist: but they will be
[14:49:22] Hiro Protagonist: these things take time
[14:49:30] Hiro Protagonist: and there are other more important things to be concerned about
[14:49:37] Casias Falta: well you must know how much 1/4 of the cost is
[14:49:38] Arielle Popstar: nods
[14:50:19] Hiro Protagonist: excuse me a moment while I recieve some advice.
[14:50:20] Talla Slade: I will ask this again: do you plan to have some kind of elected representatives from the community on the admin board?
[14:50:27] Allen Kerensky: > Hiro I'd recommend posting a definition of lifeboat rules for people
[14:50:42] Alexandra Runningbear: hiro we donate 100 E per year
[14:50:49] Alexandra Runningbear: what part of all is this?
[14:50:52] Allen Kerensky: and people who are all up in arms over entitlements to a grid they didn't build, should pick up and move
[14:51:00] Dorothea Lundquist: will those rules be added to the OSgrid web page?
[14:51:22] Allen Kerensky: or relaxz and give Hiro a chance to clean up an impending mess
[14:51:40] Allen Kerensky: and quit trying to make out like he's being a dictator donating time and money to provide you infrastructure
[14:51:42] Amy Storm: agrees with Allen
[14:51:46] Talla Slade: I have been here since 2008 and I pay a donation so I think I have the right so some small say here
[14:51:49] Dorothea Lundquist: okidoki, gonna have a drink
)
[14:51:49] Allen Kerensky: TANSTAAFL
[14:51:56] Raybo Rubble: well i agree with hiro we state no child avatars on our regions and if seen are ejected straight away and banned
[14:51:57] Amy Storm: see how things work out
[14:51:58] Jalen Optera: How exactly could we have an election, everyone and their dozens of alts gets a vote, only those who pay? I don't think there is a good way to make an election fair. And I vote with Allen, Neb went to Hiro because the grid was going to close, hiro saved the grid, lets give him some breathing room before we jump on him.
[14:52:21] Allen Kerensky: nod Talla - and that is correct - but those "rights" aren't enumerated and you donated without a contractwhatever - what did you expect to get other than connections?
[14:52:25] Dorothea Lundquist: No intention to jump on Hiro
[14:52:30] Oddball Otoole: I truly think Hiro is pushing people to other grids.
[14:52:33] Kahn Khalim: the rules were explicit for the plazas.. not its on my private own sim? If thats the way OSGrid is going to be ran, then don't even bother making a board, you just make all the decisions..
[14:52:38] Amy Storm: Right Jalen, give it a month, two months, nothing awful is going to happen.
[14:52:54] Allen Kerensky: the QUESTIONS are impoartant - collect them, and be patient enough to give time to address them
[14:52:56] Hiro Protagonist: I'm advised to make something very clear.
[14:53:00] Jamie Wright: I appreciate the work and all that people do to make it run. If the grid has rules, fine. Lots of grids have rules - just make them really easy to see.
[14:53:08] Hiro Protagonist: There are no policy changes with resepct to child avs.
[14:53:17] Hiro Protagonist: These are pre-existing policies.
[14:53:23] Talla Slade: votes based on donations. If hiro pays out a 1/4 of the costs being spant on servers with Sim Host then let him have a 1/4 of votes
[14:53:44] Talla Slade: spand = spend
[14:54:06] Jalen Optera: most people donate anoymously
[14:54:08] Casias Falta: again how much is 1/4 at least ball park
[14:54:10] Allen Kerensky: >Talla I already tossed Hiro the idea of an OSgrid Constitution and Avatar Bill of Rights - but there's OTHER stuff to get done before gravy like that can even be thought about
[14:54:10] Casias Falta: figures
[14:54:22] Arielle Popstar: their interpretation has never been clear
[14:54:44] Arielle Popstar: and as such no enforcement
[14:54:48] Allen Kerensky: and while we're talking about child avs - good riddance. If you want to relive a childhood - have a kid - and then spend yourtime offworld raising it.
[14:54:51] Casias Falta: sooooooooooo nobody knows how much this grid costs?
[14:55:02] Oddball Otoole: I have no problems with rules etc, but enforcing those rules on this way drives people away.
[14:55:06] Kahn Khalim: existing policies have to be available, the policies you said in LBSA do not match the policies posted
[14:55:07] Master Dubrovna: And it clearly does state OSGrid Plazas
[14:55:07] Arielle Popstar: except when it was of a sexual nature
[14:55:23] Talla Slade: I think they should start how they mean to carry on if the uncertainty is to be cleared up
[14:55:27] Kahn Khalim: allen thats your opinion, not policy
[14:55:28] Amy Storm: some people are unhappy and will leave, but if the grid becomes more stable it will continue to grow. I would like to see OSgrid stable and growing. I don't think it will happen unless it is tightened up a little.
[14:55:45] Allen Kerensky: exactly its my opinion, and that's all
[14:55:49] Alexandra Runningbear: osgrid is a test grid
[14:55:54] Oddball Otoole: some people? most of my friends are leaving osg
[14:56:04] Daniel Hoffman: Ouch on the reliving childhood. But willing so far to give it a few months and see how things go in general. No reason to smack on roleplayers though.
[14:56:13] Master Dubrovna: OSGrid has become more than a test grid
[14:56:23] Alexandra Runningbear: yes
[14:56:26] Allen Kerensky: kid avs are creepy and SL was an infestation of abuse with and because of them
[14:56:32] Allen Kerensky: OSG doesn't need it in the plazas
[14:56:34] Alexandra Runningbear: but is it a non profit grid?
[14:56:44] Oddball Otoole: no, osg is a testgrid with admins how think moving landing spots are big news
[14:56:45] Jamie Wright: Role play is fiction. Don't paint everyone who role plays as a pedophile.
[14:56:47] Arielle Popstar: and Allen we are all roleplayer to one degree or another
[14:56:49] Alexandra Runningbear: or is hiro captering it to build a major gird later?
[14:56:50] Amy Storm: I think a few months to catch our breaths, see if the sky is actually falling.
[14:56:56] Casias Falta: i think it is important to know about how much this test grid costs to keep running
[14:56:57] Akira Sonoda: IMHO if anyone wants to look like a child, like a pinguin or like a greeny it is his right ... basta ... and if there is a consensus among ALL the residents on OSgrid to ban any kind of avatar there has to be a referendum or something like that ...
[14:56:59] Allen Kerensky: everyone is right that the the regions connected need some indemnity agreement for OSG - what you do in your region is not reflective of OSG etc
[14:57:00] Arielle Popstar: when is your roleplay going to be next?
[14:57:22] Talla Slade: I think Role Players are not going to be welcoome in OSgrid since their choices and storylines are going to be put out.
[14:57:34] Arielle Popstar: there is no concensus
[14:57:47] Allen Kerensky: does everyone RP as kids? then go form a Pedobear Grid and call it a day with whatever policies you want
[14:57:58] Master Dubrovna: There are some here who are pixies and fairies. They are not child avatars. How will they fit in?
[14:58:21] Allen Kerensky: that's a good question Master and is always a sticking point - furries too - I've been wondering how those would play out
[14:58:25] Oddball Otoole: Folks, we are on a test grid, rp-ing has nothing to do with opensim software. Could you plz have this discussion somewhere else?
[14:58:25] Daniel Hoffman: Allen, that's rather uncalled for. I have never RPed as a child and I find that offensive just on principle. I understand concerns about child avatars--I truly do. But a concern is not the same as a bash.
[14:58:39] Daniel Hoffman: *I find your remark offensive on principle, that is.
[14:58:51] Talla Slade: yeah, what about tinies, pixies, fairies and all the little folk
[14:59:01] Talla Slade: are the children,,, some are you bet
[14:59:04] Casias Falta: HEY IF SOMEONE WANTED TO DONATE A BUNCH OF MONEY TO KEEP THE GRID RUNNING HOW MUCH EWOULD IT NEED TO BE
[14:59:04] Oddball Otoole: how about mesh folks!
[14:59:04] Hiro Protagonist: Does it say anything about them on that prim?
[14:59:05] Allen Kerensky: not much I can do about other people's problems - kids on grids are RL problems - not imaginary stuff to ignore
[14:59:09] Jamie Wright: I'm not going to argue with a ludicrous statement. In my opinion a fictional village can have characters of all ages for realism. It doesn't mean we're all sickos.
[14:59:11] Akira Sonoda: I know of roleplays whith men, women, children, everyone has its role, they play a medieval fantasy role play and children are a part of it ...
[14:59:16] Talla Slade: are you going to ban innocent role players?
[14:59:20] George Equus: Agree with Oddball!!
[14:59:21] Hiro Protagonist: Casias: as little or as much as you can afford
[14:59:41] Casias Falta: hiro that is no answer
[14:59:44] Oddball Otoole grabs yet another bag of popcorn..salty this time
[15:00:12] Fearghus McMahon: that prim says sexual ageplay.....nothing about what ever looks or age an avatar has...nor anything of whatever age the RL person behind it has
[15:00:25] Hiro Protagonist: so it does
[15:00:42] Arielle Popstar: exactly Fear
[15:00:43] Hiro Protagonist: my position is, I dont go out on the grid looking around for trouble
[15:00:44] Alexandra Runningbear: hiro
[15:00:45] Hiro Protagonist: I do go out on the grid, but as an explorer
[15:00:53] Alexandra Runningbear: osgrid is now a non profit grid
[15:00:55] Daniel Hoffman: *shrug* It is a test grid. And on this grid, there are many people testing out many builds, creating many things, and generally contributing to the vivacity and creativity of this grid. Some of us also rp and so the two things do dovetail, honestly. But yes, I agree there are issues other than rp to discuss.
[15:00:58] Hiro Protagonist: if I find a villiage like that, I look at who owns it
[15:01:01] Alexandra Runningbear: whats the future?
[15:01:05] Hiro Protagonist: and I have a look at their groups
[15:01:17] Hiro Protagonist: If its all above board, I usually leave deeply concerned.
[15:01:22] Hiro Protagonist: I might get a new pair of shoes.
[15:01:24] Alexandra Runningbear: it will be a inc?
[15:01:25] Hiro Protagonist: However
[15:01:28] Hiro Protagonist: I have found some
[15:01:31] Allen Kerensky: >Hiro an important question is - does "dah rules" apply to Plazas only, or all connected regions
[15:01:41] Talla Slade: yes, most TOS statements talk of age play
[15:01:43] Hiro Protagonist: that the owners have groups like 'little baby fuckmeat'
[15:01:46] Hiro Protagonist: now tell me
[15:01:48] Daniel Hoffman: Good question, Allen.
[15:01:51] Hiro Protagonist: what the hell is that good for?
[15:01:54] Talla Slade: meaning sex play
[15:01:58] Fearghus McMahon: tottaly agree on that one Hiro
[15:02:03] Hiro Protagonist: Now look
[15:02:04] Allen Kerensky: that is what I think people are trying to get at
[15:02:16] Hiro Protagonist: I know almost 100% certain that none of you are up for that
[15:02:18] Allen Kerensky: but conflating their personal RP opinions on it to cover the entire grid plazas too
[15:02:18] Daniel Hoffman: Yeah, Hiro, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who goes, "Gee, a group like that is a great thing."
[15:02:19] Hiro Protagonist: this isnt about you.
[15:02:24] Hiro Protagonist: so please, give it a rest.
[15:02:30] Allen Kerensky: so - I'd like tosee the line drawn too
[15:02:31] Jamie Wright: I completely agree with cracking down where there is an actual cause for concern.
[15:02:55] Hiro Protagonist: I dont generally do anything unless I come across cause for concern
[15:02:55] Arielle Popstar: so were the ones who left already of that nature?
[15:03:01] Daniel Hoffman: So... since I did come late and am catching up, are these policies in regards to the shared public spaces like orientation plazas, etc.? Or to everyone's own regions on this grid? I'm confused.
[15:03:05] Hiro Protagonist: I really dont know
[15:03:05] Allen Kerensky: well, after the teen grid collapse and the flood of 13 years olds here - its been a sword of damocles
[15:03:24] Hiro Protagonist: what I do know is that they constantly presented themselves as rule breakers, to make some sort of point
[15:03:30] Hiro Protagonist: one that doesnt register with me
[15:03:42] Oddball Otoole: well folks, this was a great meeting, took me less then 12 times to get here, i got to see a pretty hawt discussion that an admin tried to end with big news about moving newb plazas around, and an admin who pays 1/4 off the bills, but has no clue how much he's actually paying..then we started a discussion about what child avies are in a rpg, and then I lost interest in this whole osg thing....Thanks guys!
[15:03:43] Arielle Popstar: i knew 2 of them for over 3 years and never ever seen anything even remotely resembling what you just said
[15:04:00] Hiro Protagonist: and if there is nothing strange about a 50 year old man roleplaying a little girl (that isnt sexual) then I dont know what strange is
[15:04:12] Hiro Protagonist: in any case
[15:04:19] Hiro Protagonist: the similarity is too great.
[15:04:27] Arielle Popstar: its called role play
[15:04:35] Daniel Hoffman: Hiro... is this in reference to every region on OSGrid or shared public spaces? As far as the what-sort-of-avatar-is-ok question. I am just trying to clarify. Thanks.
[15:04:35] Hiro Protagonist: so role play it soemwhere else
[15:04:39] Hiro Protagonist: not on the plazas
[15:04:40] Alexandra Runningbear: i have learned, that hiro will catch this grid as his own
[15:04:44] Sherlock Reinard is Online
[15:04:49] Hiro Protagonist: For the record
[15:04:53] Hiro Protagonist: for the third time
[15:04:57] Alexandra Runningbear: we speak not about role play hiro
[15:05:00] Allen Kerensky: see, that sounds like "dah rules" are for the plazas - and you own your own liability in your regions
[15:05:01] Hiro Protagonist: no change in policy has occurred
[15:05:05] Arielle Popstar: this is only relevant for the plaza's then?
[15:05:08] Hiro Protagonist: its printed on the prim
[15:05:08] Jamie Wright: But is this extended to the entire grid? As a rule?
[15:05:08] Alexandra Runningbear: we speak about the structures of this grid
[15:05:25] Hiro Protagonist: why do we keep asking that question?
[15:05:30] Oddball Otoole: this grid has no structure
[15:05:37] Jamie Wright: Because it's very important.
[15:05:39] Boris Mortenwold is Online
[15:05:41] Daniel Hoffman: Hiro, I am honestly not trying to be an ass here. I am sorry you are repeating. I did come late. I am just trying to understand if the policy being discussed currently refers to ALL regions on OSGrid or public plaza spaces?
[15:05:43] Hiro Protagonist: is it?
[15:05:44] Alexandra Runningbear: thats my interst and thats the question from all
[15:05:47] Arielle Popstar: because it hasnnt been defined
[15:05:51] Master Dubrovna: OSGrid has never had a full TOS. It was talked about for a long time but never developed.
[15:05:58] Hiro Protagonist: do you intend to make a big show of the fact you are 'pushing the limits'
[15:06:01] Alexandra Runningbear: if this will be not a non profit grid
[15:06:04] Allen Kerensky: so table the question and take time to think about it?
[15:06:09] Alexandra Runningbear: if this will be a comercial grid
[15:06:13] Hiro Protagonist: thats a brilliant idea Allen
[15:06:29] Allen Kerensky: anyone have a problem with that?
[15:06:29] Alexandra Runningbear: with comercial structres, like sl
[15:06:29] Amy Storm: absolutely
[15:06:31] albertlr Landar: I am sorry to interject, but as a potential Board member of OSGRID, our Board has not met, and has not set any new policy for OSGRID.
[15:06:37] Alexandra Runningbear: i want to know this
[15:06:37] Hiro Protagonist: Right now, my major concern is what happens on the plazas.
[15:06:42] Allen Kerensky: thanks Albert
[15:06:44] albertlr Landar: That is they way stands.
[15:06:49] Hiro Protagonist: IF I FIND SOMETHING BAD SOMEWHERE ELSE...
[15:06:50] Jamie Wright: I don't intend to push the limits or break the rules, on my own region or the plazas.
[15:06:53] Hiro Protagonist: then that is another issue
[15:06:54] Amy Storm: absolutely to tabling it till it's ironed out
[15:07:00] Daniel Hoffman: I'm fine with it being tabled if it will get resolved explicitly later. I am just confused on whether this is affecting, for instance, my own grid or the shared space plaza grids. That's all. I thought that would be fairly straightforward.
[15:07:03] Master Dubrovna: Then enforce the rules at the plazas, That much is clear and posted.
[15:07:06] Jamie Wright: But if it's an absolute rule then we need to know.
[15:07:21] Arielle Popstar: ok so it is about the plazas and the default fall back region will no longer be exclusively LBSA
[15:07:33] Master Dubrovna: Eventually a TOS will have to be developed for the whole grid.
[15:07:34] Hiro Protagonist: I think if it applied to your regions out on the grid, that would have been stated as an area of concern for us
[15:07:34] Oddball Otoole: this is a test grid, nothing more, nothing less...why do we need rules?
[15:07:44] albertlr Landar: I am sure when Policy is set, that there will be amply opportunity for the users and members of OSGRID to have their input.
[15:07:46] Hiro Protagonist: Oddball: dont be silly.
[15:07:52] Jalen Optera: The osgrid servers are in the US, child pornography is illegal in the US, anything illegal in the US cannot be stored on the osg servers, so I would guess beyond the plazas, that is also a concern.
[15:08:01] Hiro Protagonist: It is.
[15:08:11] Hiro Protagonist: If it is an UGLY THING.
[15:08:19] Allen Kerensky: millions of detail issues like that to work out
[15:08:19] Master Dubrovna: Agreed
[15:08:21] Hiro Protagonist: if it turns out it isnt, wher's the foul?
[15:08:22] Amy Storm: So, the federal government won't shut us down, and because it's right.
[15:08:22] Fearghus McMahon: it may or may not be a test grid.....but it is still a real community
[15:08:23] Akira Sonoda: Thank you albert !!! I hope to see any information about that board ... who it is, who are the elected members, what descisions they take etc on the OSGrid Forum or such place ...
[15:08:23] Alexandra Runningbear: how much i had to pay to have the same rights as you?
[15:08:54] Alexandra Runningbear: and be member of this board?
[15:08:56] Hiro Protagonist: The first hing you all need to know is you will not be electing the board.
[15:09:05] Hiro Protagonist: you didnt elect the last one either.
[15:09:10] Daniel Hoffman: I am ok with waiting and seeing where this goes, although of course hope to have a voice when we see what the rules end up being. Ready to move on.
[15:10:29] Allen Kerensky: yeah that's what I've been trying to do - but its frustrating when people are going all off in 90 directions rather than trying to let Hiro finish stopping the boat from sinking
[15:10:38] Sarah Kline: bedtime night everyone
[15:10:43] Alexandra Runningbear: hiro, how much anyone has to pay to become meber of this board?
[15:10:45] Sarah Kline is Offline
[15:10:45] Dorothea Lundquist: I was a bit confused lately, because I had the strong impression you was involved with the new developing grid of Walter, so I was totally surprised you took over OSgrid
[15:10:46] Akira Sonoda: so the supporting ( donating, advocating residents ) have nothing to say ... thats a statement !!!
[15:10:57] Alexandra Runningbear: where i can buy a part of this company?
[15:11:02] Talla Slade: Personally, I feel troubled that Hiro is handling the servers for OSgrid and dictating to a degree here. He said he can pull the plug which strikes me as a conflict of interest and dangerous for the investment of other in OSgrid
[15:11:03] Allen Kerensky: oh good gravy
[15:11:13] Allen Kerensky: if you wanted to buy in, yer six years too late
[15:11:19] Alexandra Runningbear: which one is the owner now?
[15:11:29] Alexandra Runningbear: hm
[15:11:38] Talla Slade: the members need some say here
[15:11:43] Alexandra Runningbear: i shoulld ask neb, how much i had to oay?
[15:11:44] Allen Kerensky: need, or want
[15:11:47] Arielle Popstar: its what keeps the servers running today
[15:11:48] Allen Kerensky: donators - I agree
[15:11:48] Hiro Protagonist: Concerning representation of the public through elections. THis is something I am very interested in attempting, but it is also something I have not had a chance to discuss with my advisors, and it is a thing which presents some amazing technical hurdles.
[15:12:04] Hiro Protagonist: So that is somethnig we will all need to try to think of ways to accomplish.
[15:12:12] Allen Kerensky: and leavea lot of potential for yammerheads to take over
[15:12:26] Allen Kerensky: rather than the "folks who have been getting it done, keep getting it done"
[15:12:49] Amy Storm: moderately opposed to elections, they don't work well in my country
[15:12:56] Talla Slade: In the mean time Hiro, will you continue to threaten the community as you did at Lbsa, with termination?
[15:13:01] Jalen Optera: A group of developers originally put the grid together to test, the grid has been handed down through various folks over the years, Neb handed the reins to Hiro, it has never been an experiment in democracy, it is given to us for free.
[15:13:03] Hiro Protagonist: lol Amy
[15:13:12] Hiro Protagonist: Talla
[15:13:18] Hiro Protagonist: that was no threat of any merit
[15:13:20] Alexandra Runningbear: i read, osgrid has running costs about 2400us$ a month, is that correkt?
[15:13:29] Snik Snoodle: good point Jalen and well made
[15:13:30] Alexandra Runningbear: or a year?
[15:13:30] Hiro Protagonist: anyone with an appreciation for what was happening at the time would know that.
[15:13:38] Akira Sonoda: it's a challenge ... and there is no hurry ... the "laissez-faire" we had the last few years was very ok and all were quite comfortable with ith and certainly will be comfortable for a few months to come
[15:13:59] Allen Kerensky: and the biggest threats to the community are what hiro is trying to stop
[15:14:03] Arielle Popstar: for the donators it isnt free nor for those who have put many hours of time and effort into getting this grid to where it is
[15:14:05] Allen Kerensky: mercy the insanity
[15:14:10] Hiro Protagonist: I havent recently tallied the exopenses, but they are (presently) adequately covered
[15:14:21] Amy Storm: even with elections, there would have to be a supreme court because just because wanted doesn't always mean legally, morally, financially or technically possible. We will never have it all our own way.
[15:14:38] Talla Slade: I read the log Hiro. I think you cqame over very determind to flex your muscel
[15:14:43] Jalen Optera: I don't donate with expectations of having some kind of say or as payment, I donate because I am grateful
[15:14:46] Fearghus McMahon: right now this is a boat in stormy water...to some extend it makes sence to have a single captain to guide it through The comunity needs to feel they are being listened to though, but now it might not be the moment to be able to do that
[15:14:48] Snik Snoodle: There's actually more that everyone has in common - than that which divides us (just thought that needed saying)
[15:14:53] Hiro Protagonist: Talla: that much you rad correcttly
[15:14:59] Hiro Protagonist: *read correctly
[15:15:03] Allen Kerensky: agreed Arielle - but there was no quid pro quo agreement that helping OSG earned you ANYTHING other than the chance it would be there tomorrow - now people are demanding rights and having huffs sand storming off to other grids or whatrever
[15:15:09] Hiro Protagonist: but that flex was not for you
[15:15:33] Hiro Protagonist: Allen, heresy it may seem, I'd like to hold the door for them
[15:15:41] JJ Zackerly is Offline
[15:15:47] Dorothea Lundquist: people are divided when there is no openness
[15:15:59] Allen Kerensky: agreed - where I grew up - we calle dthem ingrates - the oldsters would spit their tobacco after they said it
[15:16:09] Hiro Protagonist: people are divided and in conflict when they are incessantly shoved into each other's faces.
[15:16:12] Hiro Protagonist: thats my theory
[15:16:17] Oddball Otoole: so, I'm an average user of OSgrid. What is important for me?
[15:16:17] Hiro Protagonist: so that wont happen any more.
[15:16:27] Daniel Hoffman: Allen... I think maybe a way to look at it is less having huffs and storming as concern by people who have helped grow and participate in a community... a community that I have always experienced as fairly easy going and egalitarian until now. *shrug* Not saying some people might NOT be getting huffy, but I think a certain amount is just worry over a place that seemed kind of happy-hippy getting a lot less so.
[15:16:32] Allen Kerensky: so until a non-profit is setup - you have no rights - done - dusted
[15:16:33] Hiro Protagonist: people will either arrive somewhere with a purpose, or they will arrive somewhere at random
[15:16:34] Talla Slade: that flex stated he would chut OSG down. That affects me and everyone
[15:16:48] Allen Kerensky: and the rights you have would be enumerated in that, if any
[15:17:11] Dorothea Lundquist: its very hard to follow this all for me
) as non english person
[15:17:11] Oddball Otoole: Can I sell drugs (In RL) here? It's allowed where I live?
[15:17:11] Talla Slade: chut=shut
[15:17:22] Amy Storm: Talla, you don't take that seriously, words in the heat of the moment
[15:17:25] Hiro Protagonist: Talla: perhaps rather than take exception with me over that, you should look into those who provoked that repsonse
[15:17:40] Allen Kerensky: and if nothing is done, OSG shuts down anyway - and this is all distraction before the water rises above the deck
[15:17:42] Hiro Protagonist: I assure you it was deliberate
[15:18:01] Sherlock Reinard is Online
[15:18:07] JJ Zackerly is Online
[15:18:42] Arielle Popstar: so when is the changeover to the welcome oplaza?
[15:18:45] Hiro Protagonist: Allen: let me be clear
[15:18:48] Hiro Protagonist: aint gonna happen
[15:19:02] Mario Lane is Offline
[15:19:08] Allen Kerensky: yeah I get that Hiro - but most folks don't
[15:19:27] Talla Slade: Hiro, I agree with banning child avatars if they are known to be ebgaging is sexual practice. My problem here is the implied dicatorship and unwillingness to consider role players in this issue
[15:19:47] Allen Kerensky: and let me be clear is what Obama says before he really starts lying - so be careful you don't get mistaken for him there
[15:19:47] Hiro Protagonist: we're going to clean the house, fix the problem with social collision and confrontation at the plazas, increase the quality level of the day one experience and get this show properly on the road on all four wheels
[15:20:09] Oddball Otoole: all this fuzz is only for the plazas?
[15:20:10] Daniel Hoffman: Allen, can we please not bring RL politics in here? It will only be dividing and polarizing. Thanks.
[15:20:24] Hiro Protagonist: Iswear, somedays, words come out of my NIC and no one reads them.
[15:20:26] Master Dubrovna: Enough dividing and polarizing here already LOL
[15:20:32] Allen Kerensky rolls eyes. Enough silliness - outta hear, have fun Hiro.
[15:20:33] Daniel Hoffman: Exactly, Dubrovna.
[15:20:35] Dorothea Lundquist: If Hiro would be a bit more diplomatic and not jumping around like a bull in a china cabinet .... it would be a bit better
[15:20:36] Fearghus McMahon: i think one of the main things to think about is building the trust back up. Make sure people think that osgrid is here to stay (aside the obvious financial and administrative things behind the scenes of course)
[15:20:40] Hiro Protagonist: Yes Allen, do us all that favor.
[15:20:47] Alexandra Runningbear: will osgrid be a nonprofit organisation or a comercial grid?
[15:21:01] Hiro Protagonist: Dorthea: soem days a bull in a china cabinet is what the doctor ordered
[15:21:02] Talla Slade: agrees with Dorothea
[15:21:28] Akira Sonoda: Allen, as i said we had a kind of anything goes situation ... now things start to change and now a lot of people are concerned ... almost the whole german community left and the last people will leave soon ... if thy see no signs of the situation remanining the same as the last years ... having some means to influence the rules of OSgrid could possibly calm down some people...
[15:21:29] Dorothea Lundquist: you know what I mean Hiro
) a Boss needs to be a bit diplomatic
[15:21:38] Hiro Protagonist: I've spent years trying to be diplomatic with that crowd whos left, and had it continuously shovelled back into myu face. the gloves are off - if you dont care for the drama, dont read the blogs.
[15:21:43] Daniel Hoffman: Hiro... just to say into all this... the fact that you are working to help OSGrid out IS something I appreciate. Thank you for that part. I don't want you to only hear anger here. I think the wish to keep the grid going is a good one.
[15:22:00] Hiro Protagonist: Thak you for recognizing that Daniel
[15:22:09] Jamie Wright: It is appreciated for sure.
[15:22:10] Hiro Protagonist: *Thank you
[15:22:12] Dorothea Lundquist: you need to learn you deal with people
[15:22:28] Hiro Protagonist: I nkow it is, and I know this is all about y'all being worried. But dont
[15:22:32] Daniel Hoffman: NP, Hiro. We may disagree on things here, but I think we ALL want to see the grid remain alive.
[15:22:37] Alexandra Runningbear: again
[15:22:47] Alexandra Runningbear: osdtid is now non profit
[15:22:49] Dorothea Lundquist: yes absolutly Daniel
[15:22:50] Hiro Protagonist: Dorthea, you should learn to recognize that everyone has a breaking point
[15:22:53] Alexandra Runningbear: osgrid*
[15:23:01] Alexandra Runningbear: you will make a company ?
[15:23:09] Dorothea Lundquist: I do Hiro, but I have no intention to break people
[15:23:11] Boris Mortenwold is Offline
[15:23:37] Talla Slade: I don't care for the drama but I do care about OSGrid and support it and defend it along with Opensim in genewral so please dont go dismissing our opinions Hiro!
[15:23:45] Oddball Otoole: I'm gonna say nite nite. Learned a lot today.
[15:24:00] Dorothea Lundquist: Odd have sweet dreams
[15:24:05] Jamie Wright: Cheers Oddy
[15:24:10] Master Dubrovna: Good night Odd
[15:24:17] Boris Mortenwold is Online
[15:24:19] Fearghus McMahon: night Odd
[15:24:21] Talla Slade: bye oddy
[15:24:22] Oddball Otoole: see you guys on metro he!?!
[15:24:31] Akira Sonoda: tc oddy :-)
[15:24:33] Oddball Otoole is Offline
[15:25:04] Hiro Protagonist: no one is dismissing opinions Talla
[15:25:15] Fearghus McMahon: so now that we had the breaking point....building up time again right?
[15:25:30] Hiro Protagonist: I dont really percieve a breaking point
[15:25:46] Talla Slade: it sounds like it when you say dont read the logs if you dont care for the drama. How are we to know anything?
[15:26:01] Hiro Protagonist: well thats why I'm having this meeting Talla
[15:26:16] Hiro Protagonist: snd why I brought the schedule up to one per week
[15:26:23] Alexandra Runningbear: may question again
[15:26:25] Hiro Protagonist: sure
[15:26:34] Alexandra Runningbear: gsgrid is now a non profit grid
[15:26:40] Alexandra Runningbear: you will change zhis?
[15:26:42] Hiro Protagonist: sorry if I'm missing any, please ask again if I dont answer
[15:26:45] Talla Slade: and thats why I am here. I dont usually go to many meetings but my regions appear to be at stake
[15:26:51] Dorothea Lundquist: Do not take it all personal... its just we love OSgrid... its our home... think its fair to ask anything we want
[15:27:00] Hiro Protagonist: no, osgrid is not going 'for profit'
[15:27:14] Hiro Protagonist: Dorthea, it is your home
[15:27:20] Hiro Protagonist: you've been here almost as long as I
[15:27:28] Hiro Protagonist: and delt with all these issues before
[15:27:44] Hiro Protagonist: you as well as anyone should know what this is about.
[15:28:17] Fearghus McMahon: survival?
[15:28:33] Fearghus McMahon: and i not mean that negative
[15:28:34] Dorothea Lundquist: I believe in democratie
)
[15:28:47] Talla Slade: Hiro, if you have evidence of child avatars on OSGrid engaging in sex age play then please show it to us
[15:28:49] Hiro Protagonist: thats a bit dramatic, but I suppose that was why I said what I did to Franzi on the plazas the other day
[15:29:00] Hiro Protagonist: I dont right now Talla
[15:29:04] Hiro Protagonist: and wont go looking for any
[15:29:17] Boris Mortenwold is Offline
[15:29:18] Mystic Rivers is Online
[15:29:19] Hiro Protagonist: but it has a tendency to show itself
[15:29:35] Hiro Protagonist: thats how I've mostly encountered it in the past: quite by accident
[15:29:52] stiofain nbmcmedia: casias asked what is the ballpark figure to run infrastructure per month
[15:29:56] Hiro Protagonist: ahh
[15:30:10] Hiro Protagonist: thefigure that was quoted earlier wasnt too far off the mark
[15:30:34] Hiro Protagonist: probably a little too much actually
[15:30:57] George Equus: If it does, why not just shut those users down. Wee all agree world wide this is NOT acceptable... as for the rest, let ppl do whatever they like on their own regions.
[15:30:59] Alexandra Runningbear: ??
[15:31:04] Talla Slade: tell, me this Hiro, do you find it offensive if a adult character, a malle and female marry and have a baby in role play at their home and one of their fainly members innocently plays that child within the limits of their role play. Do you find that offensive Hiro?
[15:31:20] Hiro Protagonist: George, thats how it works
[15:31:41] Hiro Protagonist: Talla its not about what I find offensive
[15:31:48] Hiro Protagonist: and btw no I dont find that offensive
[15:31:55] albertlr Landar: Talla I think all such questions should wait till a more appropriate time.
[15:31:58] Hiro Protagonist: perahps a little odd, but thats the limit of it
[15:32:29] George Equus: So, can everyone agree on that one and as for the rest - again, let people do whatever they please ON TEIR OWN REGIONS
[15:32:41] stiofain nbmcmedia: so i can pass on to him that a ballpark figure is 2000 usd per month for infrastructure?
[15:32:51] Talla Slade: well, it happens is what I am saying and it happens often in role play but I have never ever seen sex play with child avatars
[15:32:53] Hiro Protagonist: unless something heinous is to be found there
[15:32:57] Hiro Protagonist: you have to remember
[15:33:02] Fearghus McMahon: agreed
[15:33:05] Hiro Protagonist: ANYTHING covers a lot of territory
[15:33:08] Talla Slade: thats what makes this difficult to accept
[15:33:12] Hiro Protagonist: sure
[15:33:18] Hiro Protagonist: lets take the child sex out of it
[15:33:26] Hiro Protagonist: suppose whats found is a dmca violation
[15:33:41] Arielle Popstar: well age play in the plaza's i can understand as being unnacceptable
[15:33:44] Up Grayeddd is Online
[15:33:54] Alexandra Runningbear: find a message from nebadon about running costs of 2400 us per year thats from 12 month ago
[15:34:04] Hiro Protagonist: I think our conversation runs aground on a lck of defintion of ageplay
[15:34:09] Talla Slade: why are you not willing to at least say you will deal with each case as it arrises instead of acting like a dictator on this issue?
[15:34:09] George Equus: child sex is illeagal in the real world everywhere, so it should be in osg
[15:34:10] Alexandra Runningbear: is that neat the real costs now?
[15:34:13] Arielle Popstar: yes it does
[15:34:16] Hiro Protagonist: its reduced now considerably
[15:34:22] Hiro Protagonist: somethnig near 25%
[15:34:22] Kahn Khalim: if you want costas, look at last weeks logs, its all in there
[15:34:27] Sherlock Reinard is Offline
[15:34:30] Kahn Khalim: costs*
[15:34:36] Hiro Protagonist: thanks Khalim
[15:34:38] Fearghus McMahon: well it ain't george.....but i agree that it should be
[15:34:57] George Equus: as I recall, $5 dollar monthly from all users covers everything just fine
[15:34:59] Hiro Protagonist: It will be here. I think we can all agree it should be.
[15:35:05] Jamie Wright: Age play is any form of sexual behaviour with a representation of a child - whether it be a child with an adult ot a child with a child. All are unaccpetable.
[15:35:11] Hiro Protagonist: Some users donate much more than that.
[15:35:14] Jamie Wright: or*
[15:35:23] Amy Storm: I ask those calculating costs in their heads to not forget that the free hours the admins who run this grid donate. It's not something you can do like a hobby. It's a job.
[15:35:26] albertlr Landar: So is Gambling....
[15:35:28] Hiro Protagonist: for instance, since I took the helm, there have been 20$ subscriptions and a 50$ subscription
[15:35:40] Hiro Protagonist: for a place that is voting with their dollars, that says a lot.
[15:35:40] Talla Slade: agrees with Jamie
[15:36:16] Alexandra Runningbear: we have stopped all donations, hiro
[15:36:26] Alexandra Runningbear: as we heared this rumors all
[15:36:43] Talla Slade: if they are voting with dollars let that be tha bases of elections. Like the old days of land votes
[15:36:45] Hiro Protagonist: it's a pity you would take such actions on the basis of a rumor
[15:36:53] Alexandra Runningbear: no
[15:37:13] Boris Mortenwold is Online
[15:37:21] Alexandra Runningbear: i had to speak with my pll now
[15:37:21] Jamie Wright: I was wondering what happens with automated donations in March? Do we need to reregister?
[15:37:26] Talla Slade: here it could actually work based on donations if there was a consitution in place to prevent abuse or commercial take over
[15:37:29] George Equus: a donation here to me only have one purpous, to keep the hardware running
[15:37:35] Master Dubrovna: Off to dinner. Interesting discussion folks. Good night all.
[15:37:43] Alexandra Runningbear: we are around 20 not only from europe and has 50 sims running here
[15:37:51] Daniel Hoffman: Oh, good question about automated donations. I donate monthly via Paypal... will that still work ok, Hiro?
[15:37:55] Alexandra Runningbear: we had to decide, which way this will go
[15:38:00] Bruch a is Offline
[15:38:02] Jamie Wright: I do as well.
[15:38:02] Alexandra Runningbear: have a good time all
[15:38:09] Akira Sonoda: biba Alex
[15:38:11] George Equus: i would not consider it giving me any right in particular, based on any amount I choose to pay
[15:38:11] Arielle Popstar: waves
[15:38:21] Inanna Beaumont is Online
[15:38:22] Arielle Popstar: dinner sounds good
[15:38:25] Vivienne Clary: ciao Alesandra
[15:38:26] Hiro Protagonist: There will need to be a paypal address change at some point in the not distant future. You can bet I will let you all know.
[15:38:32] Jamie Wright: OK
[15:38:34] JJ Zackerly is Offline
[15:38:38] Daniel Hoffman: Ok, thanks Hiro. I will continue as is until I hear.
[15:38:46] Hiro Protagonist: Thanks Daniel
[15:38:47] Akari Lotus is Online
[15:38:50] Jamie Wright: And no I don't donate for rigths either but to contribute to the running of the grid.
[15:38:51] Daniel Hoffman: np
[15:38:53] Fearghus McMahon: i'd say give hiro and the rest of the team a shot...see where it goes
[15:39:17] Talla Slade: elected representation is about having a say. Donations are about putting your money where your mouth is
[15:39:33] Hiro Protagonist: The donations are greatly appreicated, and you'll (hopefully) understand if I cant treat you all entirely as donators or entirely as not donating.
[15:39:40] Up Grayeddd is Offline
[15:40:01] Jamie Wright: Some people can't and they shouldn't have no voice because of economics.
[15:40:13] Snik Snoodle: 31 ppl in sim - currently - this is a public services information bulletin.....
[15:40:15] Hiro Protagonist: for the most part I cant tell as the names here dont match the pp accounts
[15:40:36] Fearghus McMahon: elections are not gonna get osgrid through this rough spot...action is needed...and that means a small team doing what needs to be done right now
[15:40:37] Hiro Protagonist: exactly Jamie
[15:40:46] Talla Slade: they can go to meetings like this to have a say. But voting can be based on full associated membership
[15:40:52] Talla Slade: for which you pay
[15:41:00] Hiro Protagonist: Fearghus, you just hit the nail squarely on the head
[15:41:09] Akari Lotus is Offline
[15:41:12] Jalen Optera: if that was the case it would be a commercial grid talla, it is not
[15:41:18] Amy Storm: fearghus, it's a time of crisis, absolutely agree
[15:41:24] George Equus: "Donations are about putting your money where your mouth is" No, not in my mind. This is not a political party, it is an experimental grid for testing technical things.
[15:41:29] Hiro Protagonist: thank you Jalen for saying what I was searching about for words to express
[15:41:29] Daniel Hoffman: Mmm, some people come here precisely because they need the service to be free... so I don't think that works, Talla... although I hear what you're trying to say I believe.
[15:41:33] Akira Sonoda: Yeah Fearghus .. keep that servers running and the backups working ... that's all we expect from our dontations ..
[15:41:40] Amy Storm: talla, a lot of people like me can't afford to pay. I give my time
[15:41:54] Amy Storm: and it makes me angry to see people who can't pay discounted
[15:42:01] Talla Slade: dictatorship grows out of small dedicated teams. OSG needs a consitution at the very least
[15:42:26] Fearghus McMahon: that is icing on the cake at this moment
[15:42:37] Hiro Protagonist: Talla, one thing that you can hold as proof against that eventuallity: I dont like the focus that is directed at me right now
[15:42:45] Hiro Protagonist: I am a private person, and I like it that way
[15:42:49] Jalen Optera: osgrid the organization provides servers and central plazas and a wealth of expertise and input into the testing of opensim, it is not here to provide some kind of social engineering experiment in the virtual worlds.
[15:42:50] Hiro Protagonist: I dont like the responsibility
[15:43:05] Hiro Protagonist: I really dont want to do it much at all, I'm not especially great at it.
[15:43:11] Talla Slade: no, not icing, a promise to the community that they matter, that they are heard and listened too
[15:43:14] Hiro Protagonist: but it had to be done, and I was the one person.
[15:43:23] Hiro Protagonist: Tis is not icing.
[15:43:32] Hiro Protagonist: its just the way it fell out.
[15:43:37] Fearghus McMahon: the bottom line is....we all need eachother
[15:43:41] Hiro Protagonist: yes
[15:43:58] christina wildrose is Online
[15:44:01] Daniel Hoffman: Agreed.
[15:44:01] George Equus: well put Jalen
[15:44:01] Hiro Protagonist: someday I'd like to go back to what I was doing before all this, which was nothing much at all.
[15:44:06] Fearghus McMahon: with the icing i was referring to having a constituton right now....that is things that can be thought about when things are stable
[15:44:17] Fearghus McMahon: not even saying there should be one or not
[15:44:40] Daniel Hoffman: I am willing to give the new set-up a spin for a while and see how it pans out. I hope to have a voice and input in general, not in a "OMG important me!" way. LOL! But ok with seeing how things shake out a bit.
[15:44:41] Hiro Protagonist: I think someone else said they wanted something ,not icing
[15:44:41] Talla Slade: fine, Jalen. Let it be just a test bed for Opensim and Hiro pay for it. We can go elsewhere if that is what you want
[15:45:21] Hiro Protagonist: No one says you should go elsewhere; but you should probably notice that you ask an awful lot from us.
[15:45:30] Daniel Hoffman: Wait, just to clarify, I did NOT feel anybody WAS saying "OMG important me." Yeesh, talk about me phrasing things badly. Sorry.
[15:45:31] Fearghus McMahon: don't think that is what jalen was trying to say Talla
[15:45:43] Hiro Protagonist: lol Daniel its ok
[15:46:09] Jamie Wright: It's those wings...they make you puff up XD
[15:46:17] Daniel Hoffman: Ok, I am going to take a deep breath and back away from the kool aid and...LMAO. There you go.
[15:46:27] Amy Storm:
[15:46:43] Daniel Hoffman: I am going to see how things go, keep an eye on how I feel about it, and keep building my region and hoping to drum up a rp group eventually.
[15:46:49] christina wildrose is Offline
[15:46:49] Hiro Protagonist: Ok, as if that wasnt enough LOL
[15:46:54] Talla Slade: it sounded like that to me. Of course OSgrid is a social environment. ^, 000 regions and 50 odd K memebers says that
[15:46:54] Daniel Hoffman: And leaving my freebies for folks on the Sandboxes.
[15:46:58] Hiro Protagonist: does anyone else have anything else?
[15:47:19] Hiro Protagonist: 80k odd members and over 8k regions
[15:47:44] Talla Slade: exactly, Hiro. That says it is a social grid
[15:47:53] Fearghus McMahon: just keep us informed please....will try to come to meetings like this more often
[15:47:54] Hiro Protagonist: it says its being used socially.
[15:48:04] Hiro Protagonist: Look, I dont deny we're working socially
[15:48:10] Hiro Protagonist: or that the grid is a test grid
[15:48:39] Snik Snoodle: 29 ppl in sim - this is a public service announcement
[15:48:43] Hiro Protagonist: if we can get past all this shitstorm over some tedious, problematic individuals (lets say about 0.02% of that 80k) then we shall have both
[15:48:45] Dorothea Lundquist: well perhaps 1 thing
)) being a Boss you have to stand above all parties and not having any favorites
)) thank God I am just a simple builder
[15:48:45] Toy McBride: any chance meetings could occasionally be held on your saturday as your sunday is not good for those outside of America i am here because it's a holiday today (monday for me)
[15:48:47] Raybo Rubble: what are your plans for taking this grid forward and what updates to the servers are plan if any
[15:48:52] Daniel Hoffman: I think if the social were taken out, the grid would be much smaller. I think the grid has its prescription use (test grid) and its off-prescription use (social grid) and it performs well at both. Try to make it only one or only the other and it will falter. I think as long as that is acknowledged--that both go into making it a vibrant place--we will do well.
[15:48:57] Jamie Wright: I'm not making any sudden changes. And I'm not one to leave ina huff. My disagreement with certain thinsg does not equal a lack of understanding or respect for all involved. If this eventually feels like it might not be the place for my RPG, it actually doesn't mean that I'm personally leaving or planning to bash the place. I always want to work with the grid in harmony, not against it.
[15:49:21] Daniel Hoffman: What Jamie said.
[15:49:24] Hiro Protagonist: We could look at a more globe-friendly schedule
[15:49:33] Toy McBride: thank you Hiro
[15:49:41] Daniel Hoffman: Good point, Toy. And co
